Joe DeRose: Keeping Jazz Education Alive
Dylan: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Jazz for Equity's interview series, where I talk with musicians, advocates, and educators about topics at the intersection of jazz and social equity. I'm your host, Dylan Rouvier, a junior at Leigh High School in San Jose, California, and the founder of Jazz For Equity—an organization dedicated to bridging gaps between historically marginalized and underrepresented communities through the transformative power of music. Today, I'm excited to introduce drummer, composer, and educator, Joe DeRose. A Bay Area native and graduate of Berklee College of Music, Joe has spent more than 25 years building an impressive career as both a performer and educator. Throughout his career, he has performed at renowned venues and festivals, including the Monterey Jazz Festival, Yoshi's Jazz Club, Kuumbwa Jazz Center, the San Jose Jazz Summer Fest, and internationally across Europe, Japan, and Canada. As a bandleader, Joe has released two original jazz-fusion albums under the band name, Joe DeRose and Amici, including Peace Streets, which received Grammy consideration for Best Instrumental Jazz Album. Beyond performing, Joe is deeply passionate about music education. He is the author of the instructional book 16th Note Possibilities, has mentored drummers for more than two decades, and recently fulfilled a lifelong dream by opening the DeRose School of Music and Life in San Jose. Through his teaching, writing, and mentorship, Joe has inspired countless musicians while emphasizing not only technical excellence but also personal growth through music.
Welcome, Mr. DeRose.
Joe: Thank you for having me, Dylan! It's an honor to be here. Good to see you.
Dylan: Of course, I'm so glad to see you too! For those listening, Mr. De Rose used to be my drum teacher, and he really helped me develop my drumming skills and grow as a musician and person too, and I really appreciate him.
Joe: I appreciate you having me back. It's full circle, Dylan. It's great to see you turn into a fine young man, and to be a part of your podcast here. I'm really proud of you, man. So, thanks for having me as your guest.
Dylan: Yeah, of course. I'm so glad to have you. Jazz has long been described as America's classical music, but it was also born from communities that faced discrimination and limited opportunities. Throughout its history, Jazz has been a vehicle for storytelling, resilience, and cultural expression. As someone who has spent decades performing and teaching jazz, what does the history of this music mean to you, and why do you think it's important for younger musicians to understand where jazz came from?
Joe: That's a great question. I was educated as a young man that Jazz is one of our only American art forms that we have here in the country. It is a fusion of African American rhythms, the 12 eight rhythm, which is also known in America as a triplet, and the 12-bar blues, which was brought from the slaves from being suppressed. They brought it to this country when they were taken from their country, and then we borrowed European harmonies, and we we first started off with the the form of blues music, which then transpired into Jazz. So it's really special for me to carry on the heritage of the music and educate this music because it was born in the country. But I really love this quote by Duke Ellington: he said that Jazz is the people's music, and now that we're in the future, I think everybody globally is contributing to jazz music. And you know, being born in the states is is certainly one of our, you know, attributes.
But now the fact that, you know, Afro Cuban, there's people all over the world that are adding their their fusion to jazz and it's really evolving. I think it's a really special thing, and the fact that we work together on on jazz music, and now that you're you're educating people about it and trying to to inform people and keep the music alive is a really special thing. I can say that, not only about jazz and music, but when I was at Berklee, I remember being a freshman, and I was in an ensemble with a group of of young people like myself, and we couldn't speak to each other because we were all from different countries, and they put sheet music in front of us, and we were able to play, you know, the truly international music, you know, music in general, but jazz music that everybody studies all over the world. And we got together, and you know, we couldn't say very many words to each other, but we were able to communicate through music and Jazz, and it was really a special moment for me.
Dylan: Wow! Thank you so much. Yeah, I think that's so beautiful and interesting how Jazz has the ability to connect so many people from different cultures and has such a rich history that a lot of other genres sort of—I don't want to speak badly about other genres, right—but Jazz is just so uniquely rich in its history and so powerful, and has facilitated so many movements and the connection of people.
Joe: I agree, and you know, a lot of our younger generation loves Hip-Hop music, and I would definitely say that Hip-Hop's a derivative of Jazz. You know, so that's good for our younger generation to know that the roots, like some of these rappers, like Snoop Dogg and LL Cool J, you know, at least that that was my era. Those guys, man, I hear them rap, and I hear like a horn solo, you know, with their phrasing and their melody—It's definitely come from Jazz and the the triplet feel, and so it's really evolved into our pop culture, you know, it's important for the younger generation to know that.
Dylan: Yeah, definitely. All right, I'd like to ask a follow up question. Why do you think it's important for younger musicians to understand where jazz came from?
Joe: I think knowing the roots of anything in life is important, to know where something came from. One of my educators, when I was studying with them, his name was Freddie Gruber. He was an amazing educator. He was really the one that exposed me to that and talked about the Afro- the mother groove, which came from Africa. The 12/8 jang jang j-j j-jang jang jang jang j-j j-jang jang, you know, which is really coming from the triplet. And if you look at an American sheet of notation, you know you have your wholes, quarters, halves, eighths, sixteenths, thirty-seconds, and you'll notice there's no triplets there. And realizing that the triplets came from Africa, is an important thing to realize that triplets aren't really an American subdivision. It came from Africa, so I think it's important to know that, and not only the blues form that so many so much of our music, jazz, country, rock and roll is all based off of the blues form. So I think if you really want to know your history of music, understand the 12/8 mother rhythm and the blues form that came from Africa was really the basis of our American culture, musically.
Dylan: Yeah, I completely agree with you. Thank you so much. All right, I'll go on to the next question now. Throughout your career, you've not only performed professionally but also mentored students of all ages. For many young musicians, having someone who believes in them can completely change the direction of their lives. Was there someone who played that role for you early in your career, and how has that experience influenced the way you mentor your own students today?
Joe: Yeah, If we have time, Dylan, I'd like to give a two-part answer to that question-
Dylan: Of course.
Joe: -because, I wouldn't be a jazz musician if it wasn't instilled in the school district that I went through. And so when I was, you know, I am very grateful to God for blessing me with my health and the gift of music, a wonderful family that supported me, and I really thank my parents, students, like yourself, that support young musicians by taking them to lessons and going to the recitals. When I was coming up, I went to the Alum Rock School District here in the East Foothills, and they had a wonderful music program. And so when I was in about fourth grade, my older brother Gino taught me drums. He was my first mentor and teacher, and my music school director, Mr. Wood, came in when I was about in fourth grade, and he offered instruments to us. And I chose the drums because I knew how to play a little bit. So I participated in school, and then there was this program that totally blew my mind called the Alum Rock Jazz Band, also known as the Alum Rock Jazz Foundation, directed by the late, great Bill Nicolosi, who was one of my first mentors. It was kind of an audition type of... They got the best of the Alum Rock District kids together and made it like a big band, and they exposed us to jazz. When I was in eighth grade, that's really how I learned about jazz, was through Bill Nicolosi's Alum Rock Jazz Foundation. I was very fortunate because they sent me to the Stanford Jazz Workshop for a summer to prepare me for the next year playing in their band, and it was a world-class experience for me, going to Stanford Jazz and working with, you know, top educators. So I'd like to say thank you to my Alum Rock Jazz family and give my respects to the late, great Bill Nicolosi. He was a great mentor. He was like a father figure to me. He not only taught me about music, but how to be a good person, how to have a good work ethic. And I'd like to give credit to Bill for introducing me. And he's not only done that for me; he's done that for 53 years. I highly recommend checking out the Alum Rock Jazz Foundation. I think you can go to alumrockjazz.com for anybody who wants.
These are my roots, my heritage. So after I went through that program, I went to Cal State Hayward briefly for a couple quarters, and I met a gentleman named Louis Bellson, who's a famous jazz drummer, composer, arranger, and author, and he was a huge influence on my life. He was like a second father to me as well. And Louis, as you know—or if you don't know, I highly recommend you Google him—he's a part of American history, one of the greatest drummers, arrangers, and composers to be on this planet, and I had a really very close relationship with him. And Louis used to always tell me it's important to pass on what we know to the next generation, so that way this beautiful gift of jazz doesn't die, just kind of like what you're doing with your program. I have so much respect for what you're doing, and that's why I love educating so much, because after performing for 35 years, at this point in my life, I feel like I'm done touring and recording, and I just really want to settle down. My students are my number one priority: education and giving back what I took. I think that's an important thing, you know. When somebody gives you something, to give it to someone else in return, you know, paying it forward. So Bill Nicolosi, like I said, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be sitting here talking about jazz. I probably would have been just a rock and roll drummer, you know. They exposed me to jazz. And then having the relationship that I did with Louis was a true blessing and an honor. He treated me like a son, and he educated me about people like Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Papa Joe Jones, who was one of his teachers on the drums, who was, you know, an amazing drummer. For any young drummer, check out Papa Joe and watch his brush work, his hand technique. I think we might have talked about him, Dylan, when we studied together. I'd like to give tribute to Bill and Louis on that question.
Dylan: Yeah, thank you so much. And I also talked about this with the previous guest, and I really think it's important that we keep jazz education available in schools because it leads to so many like young students finding, or like, learning about their love for jazz, like in it did in your case too, and I think it's really great that students are able to go to school and then get instruments from their district or get lessons from their like, school's band director, for example, and develop as a musician. Yeah, thank you so much for telling me about that.
Joe: Yeah. I definitely highly encourage you to check out the Alum Rock Jazz Foundation. They provide instruments, and it's just a wonderful organization that's been around for 53 years. And, like I said, they've they've touched 1000's of kids and and really helped the legacy of jazz continue on.
Dylan: I recommend anyone locally listening to this to also check that out. It seems like a really great foundation. Looking back over your career, from performing internationally to writing educational materials and opening your own music school, you've impacted countless musicians and audiences. When you reflect on everything you've accomplished, what are you most proud of, and what continues to inspire you to keep teaching and performing today?
Joe: Well, Dylan, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it's people like you that have come through my life. You were a student, you're always very respectful and attentive, you practiced, you absorbed the information and passion that I was trying to to convey to you, and now, really, the the biggest accomplishment for me is when I can see a young gentleman like you blossom into a young man and try to, you know, keep the legacy alive by your podcast, educating people, sharing with others. So when I see one of my students come back and do something like you're doing, that really makes me proud. And there's no better accomplishment. I mean, I love performing and and recording, but if if I could touch one life or make a difference in one person's life, that's the biggest reward I can ever ask for, and it transcends any anything else for me. So I'm really proud of you, Dylan, and keep doing what you're doing, man. Thanks for having me.
Dylan: I really appreciate that. It really makes me happy to hear that I, like, have an influence on you. That really makes me happy. It's, like, really like, a main motivating motivating factor for me too. I really like helping people, and I just want to see students with Jazz for Equity, for example, be able to develop as musicians too, and it makes me happy to see them succeed and find passion in drumming or whatever other instrument they're playing. All right, is there anything else you'd like to share?
Joe: I'd just like to say, you know, for the younger generation, find a good teacher that you really are inspired by, and that not only gives you knowledge about music, but mentors you about life. Because, you know, we want to be great musicians, but we also want to be great human beings, and we want to be happy. So, you know, like I've told you, we want to groove and improve, and most importantly, enjoy life. Always have an attitude of gratitude, stay blessed and not stressed, and most importantly, have fun at what we're doing. So if we're having fun and we're making good connections with our friends and making music and relationships, I would say that the best friends in my life I've met through music. And it's a real blessing to still have all these friends that I made music with at one time, and it's that common bond that we have. It's a great way to thrive off each other and feed off each other.
Dylan: Yeah, thank you so much, and thank you for joining us and sharing the history of Jazz and what it means to you. If you're interested in donating or volunteering, you can find out how to do so at jazzforequity.com. Thank you so much, Mr. DeRose. I really enjoyed having you as a guest.
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